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HLMA Hugh Betcher 29 Nov 2015

Re: No Regrets Shares Like I said, no regrets ...

MONI Hugh Betcher 29 Nov 2015

steve gurr Steve Gurr I’m watching with amusement but a bit puzzled. You queried why someone who doesn’t own shares in a company is here and posting and accused him of posting childish insults and now you’re ticking up posts from someone who owns no shares and only posts childish insults.a bit hypocritical ???

QPP eagle51 29 Nov 2015

Re: SGH A couple of point I'd appreciate clarification on, moonowl. You say:"Institutions holding stocks long enable shorting by lending those stocks"..........are you saying the institutions doing the lending beneficially own the shares they're lending? Or are they lending shares owned by others, in their position as trustees?Re: "I don't think you could argue that trustees are being dishonest - they don't personally gain from the practice"..............I don't think this is the point at issue, A trustee's responsibilities are to the beneficial owner to protect his assets. it is difficult to see the upside to a beneficial owner of his shares being lent to someone else. If there is such upside, it seems to me it should be very clearly defined in advance.Ultimately, one can simplify the situation to such an extent that it is plain for all to see why current practices are all so wrong, so I cite the following situation and invite your comments. It is a short story I have made up for the purpose:1 You are the sole member of a pension scheme (it doesn't matter whether it is a private one or an institutionally managed one)2 When you first started investing your savings many years ago, you were advised your interests would be protected by two trustees, independent of the manager, who did this sort of thing professionally for a living. "Who appoints the trustees" you asked at the time. "We do - but there' no need for concern, these people are scrupulously honest" (failing to add: "and turn a blind eye to almost everything if we pay them enough. Besides, if they don't, they know they'll never get another job in the industry". "Oh" you say. 3 You continue to invest your savings over ensuing years and your funds grow (not as much as you were expecting but apparently investing conditions are generally unfavourable and the fund manager tells you his performance is in the top quartile - what can you do?). You receive annual statements showing fund performance and various pie charts etc, showing where the funds are invested geographically and by sector, but you are not given a breakdown that enables you fully to reconcile this year's value with last year's at any time. You have heard of the term: "stock lending" but are not told if it has applied to the fund your investments are in.4 The day comes for you to retire and so you do - 40 years of hard work and now it's time to put your feet up and do all that travel (business class) you and your wife have been looking forward to for so long. 5 On the first Monday after your retirement, you can't wait. You ask the fund manager for a fund valuation because, being a cautious type (as evidenced by the fact you have saved regularly your whole career to provide for your retirement), you've decided an annuity is best for you and you want to shop around for the best deal.6 You receive the valuation and are horrified to see that the fund value has declined by some 10% since the time of the last valuation only a short time ago. You get straight on the phone to the manager.7 "Oh that". We lent some of the shares in your portfolio - you were heavy in that sector - to one of our regulars and he returned them on Friday worth a bit less. It sometimes happens, but there's nothing to worry about - we only invest for the long term and short term price fluctuations don't concern us. It wasn't just your shares we lent; they wanted 10m so you're not alone". 8 "How much less were they worth when they were returned?" you ask9 "Well, when we lent them they were £3 and when they were returned they were 75p" he replies "there were some fundamental things wrong with the company, so the borrower told us - he'd seen a report written by some Americans, which is why he borrowed them. He paid us a good fee though - and that was good for you, because these fees mean we don't have to charge clients like you as much commission. And now everyone knows what a lousy company it was, That's good isn't it?"

OXS Pennyfalls 29 Nov 2015

Fao Louise I'm not sure if you were taking the mick with your last message Lou, but you do realise that Oxus have been producing gold and silver in pretty large amounts since they started there - originally exceeding expectations of production.It may seem boring but if you look through all the past years reports, it's all there..Good luck

QPP eagle51 28 Nov 2015

Re: SGH All valid points, moonowl (except the fees bit - I'm not sure how these are treated and in any event I'd prefer my shares not mucked around with as a pension investor). I'm mainly interested in transparency - it's a murky area and is affecting AIM (in particular) negatively. I know several people who have withdrawn all their funds and won't go back. It's virtually impossible for PIs to win against the weight of money thrown into destroying certain companies' prices - it seems to be indiscriminate at times; just another way of the big fish making money, at least partly using fear as a weapon. The companies attacked aren't always basket cases, although they may have weaknesses. A bit like going to your doctor with a cold and being euthanised.If one looks back at AIM's original raison d'etre, it's barely recognisable. Junior companies struggle to raise funds anyway (ask Mel about bonds) and AIM's the last place to do it now - it's invariably presented as a sign of weakness and the share price is killed. Thanks for the steer on the book. I'll add it to the Christmas list a couple of friends have asked me to provide.If only my dogs could read. I'll buy it myself. It'll have to be a second hand one from Amazon after investing a shilling in SGH on Friday (at 90c - difficult to set a low 'limit' buy price without risking missing out - ha ha)

QPP moonowl 28 Nov 2015

Re: SGH Institutions holding stocks long enable shorting by lending those stocks. Some pension schemes do this, some don't. Those that do, do so for a fee that benefits the scheme members. The securities lent may be used for purposes other than shorting, tax arbitrage was a popular reason a few years ago and I understand bank capital regulation may be driving some lending activities these days. It would be difficult showing that a specific loan was responsible for generating a loss on the underlying holding for the pension scheme members; but it's certainly a valid consideration. I don't think you could argue that trustees are being dishonest - they don't personally gain from the practice.I am less sure about the transparency on lending in other savings products and whether any lending fees are used to offset the fees (I would doubt it).In defence of shorters (I am not one) I would say they stop the over-inflation of frauds and hypes and anyone holding a stock that is being heavily shorted would do well to reconsider their case.You are obviously interested in the subject, if you have an open mind go and read - Fooling some of the people all of the time, by David Einhorn.

MML Peter the Red 28 Nov 2015

Re: Medusa Share Price Latest price:- Aus$0.38 (= 18p)

ULT Ze Don 28 Nov 2015

Re: fail... Groupon have been doing offers for Online CBT for 19 quid, ....say's it all really. Ultrasis ripped shareholders off good style.

PHD Carefully Does It 28 Nov 2015

Far East Good to see: [link]

OXS Pennyfalls 28 Nov 2015

Phone number - sent you e-mail logging off here for now..Sent me a quick text if you've got it, or message here if it hasn't come through for some reason.Talk soon,best wishes, PF

QPP eagle51 28 Nov 2015

Re: SGH "Whether it's "fair" or not is not really the point".....................I agree with you to an extent, Moonie - unusual but there it is.What I asked was whether YOU would regard the situation I outlined as fair. To put it another way, do you support 'breach of trust', which is probably the most heinous failing of which a trustee might be accused? Always go back to basics and there you will find it, the simple explanation of why the practice of shorting, without first obtaining the express consent of the beneficial owner to the loan of his shares, is wrong. It could not be more wrong, because it acts directly against the interests of the beneficiary (the owner of the shares) which a trustee is appointed to protect. To compound the issue the nominee, as bare trustee, charges a fee which he probably keeps (to cover expenses incurred in committing the breach of trust).These jokers are driving a proverbial 'coach and horses' through a law which was spawned in England and has probably existed since the days of the Crusades. They do it because they can, or at least they think they can because no one stops them and they get away with it.I intend to do my best to ensure that a case is eventually brought by a group of shareholders whose wealth has been damaged as a result of the loan of their shares without their consent, against the trustee of a pension fund or a broker holding the shares as nominee. When that case is proven and restitution gained, trustees will probably think a bit harder before they act in such a cavalier way 'because everyone does it and it provides them with additional fees'.I am not against 'shorting' itself, which is only selling with the express intention of buying back at a lower price later. I am against the dishonesty that is clearly evident in the practices that go on today.How about you, Moonie? Are you against dishonesty?

AMI liu 28 Nov 2015

[email protected]

OXS Pennyfalls 28 Nov 2015

Re: Phone number om ...will doCheers

OXS Pennyfalls 28 Nov 2015

Re: Phone number ok ...will doCheers

AFR Paitech 28 Nov 2015

Re: The trial judge, O.A. Adamson Fantasticnew ldlv.I have been in the email group which you said earlier... for action group, but never reiceved no confirmation of emails... hope we still can manage to get something out from afren... good luck all holders... taGood work ldlv.taG