Eadwig
13 Oct 2016
Re: Amaya�s debts worry William Hill b... Punilux, A bad beat is one thing - and believe me, poker pros as well as recreational players will spend hours telling you about them if you let them.My worst one? One card to come, I had made my Ace flush hand already, the guy next to me had called my bet, with everything he had, because once card left in the pack would give him a straight flush. Three other players had all their chips in the middle and were already dead to my hand. He hit it. That was 40 odd to 1. Another time, I had two aces pre-flop (the best hand you can have at that point in Texas hold 'em ) - and made a full raise and was called by a man with K-6 (an unplayable hand at a full table of ten players). The flop was 6-6-6. 10,000-1.See? I say I'll tell you one then I'm off. The two men that beat me in those hands were terrible players playing well against the odds - but that is poker. The only addictive gamblers I have known play it, and play it like addictive gamblers, do so because it keeps them off the other casino tables for a couple of hours (until they're knocked out of the tournament) and that saves them money. Even if they play every single hand.The action in a poker game is very slow, you see, by comparison. That's why addicted gamblers don't use it for their addiction.A recreational player is someone who enjoys playing poker but accepts that they will ultimately being paying for the entertainment. Just like any other entertainment. They're not addicts, and tens of millions do it once a week in America over a few beers (they're not alcoholics either). That's what makes their restrictive online laws so odd.The market doesn't seem to agree that this merger would be a good fit.Oh, and Coren ain't that good, she's really working the media and consequently plays starting hands that are way beyond her ability to make profitable but that make good TV and interesting watching. Alvarez was an author/journalist, but not much more than a recreational player, and played way out of his league for his reportage. Did the Isle of Man vote in the referendum? I don't think it did - therefore Brexit wont affect them except by collateral damage.
pyueck
13 Oct 2016
Re: Amaya�s debts worry William Hill b... Of course poker is full of gambling addicts, and enticed in on this idea that with a bit of skill and intelligence it is the road to riches. It isn't, it's a mugs game that even playing a perfect game online (not hard to do with software) you will struggle to break even.But then you speak to people playing poker and they all seem to be making money! Yes making money when they are all paying 10% buy in every game! Maybe 1% do make money, at least for a time, but for every person that does there are a hundred others with selective memory and a hole in their bank accounts. Not to mention the broken lives it causes.Wmh also have operations in Gibraltar and Israel, however tax in the U.K. is now done on point of consumption rather than point of sale so no great advantages of taking anything else offshore.In the wider context it's clear that the gambling industries vision they espoused five years ago is not happening. They made out gambling addiction is not a problem, we will self regulate, in a few years the whole world will be open to us with light touch regulation and low taxes. They even peddled the usual rubbish of its better too be regulated than have an unscrupulous, unregulated underworld! It's now clear that the industries figures on addition are misleading, regulation is rising not falling and taxes increasing. The big risk is that at some point the government actually stops falling for the rubbish on gambling addiction and takes serious action. As I have said many times if you don't believe me go into a shop and see for yourself, this is an industry with a huge structural problem.A few mergers won't solve anything.
Punilux
13 Oct 2016
Re: Amaya�s debts worry William Hill bro... Eadwig clearly knows far more about poker than me - I read Victoria Corren's autobiography and realised how much time and effort you need to put in before being half decent. At least I can fluke a win on the horses. However....So far as I can tell there is no organic expansion in the online poker market, but there is in sports betting. Pokerstars etc. have not been overwhelmingly successful in selling the latter to their client base which may be 100 million people. William Hill casino has not been a great money spinner and they have a far lower customer base. What they do have is an acknowledged expertise in sports betting internationally as well as the required trading licences. In view of certain current legal proceedings there is the possibility of certain directors connected with Pokerstars not being perceived as being fit and proper people. Again, I bow to Eadwig's greater knowledge but most "recreational" poker player's are always happy to show off their bad beatings which, to me, look like the actions of a horrendous gambling addiction. I accept that this is no doubt wrong, but if a highly intelligent philosopher such as Alvarez can be forced to walk home because he lost his new car in a game then something is going on that I don't understand. As for the two companies being a "fit", the jury is out. Clearly a WMH CEO was pushed because of disagreements concerning the match but then I would have thought that increasing divs at a time of profit reduction was madness unless there was something big in the pipeline which wouldn't cost investors much. If you strip out the pure economics of a merger it is also possible that, if circumstances dictate, the whole company could be moved out of Britain rather quickly. Does anyone know how the Brexit will affect the Isle of Man ?
Eadwig
12 Oct 2016
Re: AmayaÂ’s debts worry William Hill bro... pyueck,Pokerstars has been the leading poker site for something like 16 years.Problem gamblers don't play poker - although the site has all the standard self-regulating options - which it put in place long before online casinos. Before there were online casinos even, I think.Online poker sites have been consolidating with Pokerstars seamlessly absorbing accounts from third party sites it has taken over or merged with - Full Tilt being the last one I am aware of, which had previously been one of its biggest competitors.Pokerstars also has the best online poker software, safety standards and interface.Is it worth the price? I'm not sure. But William Hill could easily merge its own poker site accounts with pokerstars and there is a saving immediately (to answer one of your questions). William Hill would then control the largest and best poker site in the worldr, one which is highly unlikely to ever be challenged successfully, unless someone is prepared to cut customer charges drastically.Pokerstars has never really cut its 'charges' as such. It pretty much had the right business model from the start, it appears, as it has never changed and set the charging standards for all the other sites that followed. I don't know about the rest of the business. As a user of Pokerstars for most of its existence I can give you these facts.
pyueck
11 Oct 2016
Re: AmayaÂ’s debts worry William Hill bro... Go into a shop and see if you believe it
valeite
11 Oct 2016
Re: AmayaÂ’s debts worry William Hill bro... pyueck having a victor meldrew moment LOL
pyueck
11 Oct 2016
Re: AmayaÂ’s debts worry William Hill broker I can't see the logic of the deal at all? How will any savings actually be made? How does merging mitigate the impact of rising taxes, regulation and a business who can't get to grip with the issue that so much of it's money comes from people who are problem gamblers?
Kingel
11 Oct 2016
AmayaÂ’s debts worry William Hill broker Corporate broker Peel Hunt placed its recommendation and forecast for house stock William Hill (WMH) under review following confirmation of talks for the company to mount an all-share reverse takeover of Amaya in Canada.Amaya is the indebted operator of the PokerStars website. Analyst Ivor Jones said a merger would create a group with a leading position in online poker and sports betting. However, integration would be hard, he said, as William Hill has bases in UK, Gibraltar and Israel and Amaya is located in Canada and the Isle of Man.Moreover, the deal was unlikely to reduce Amaya’s debts sufficiently for investors. ‘We estimate Amaya’s standalone net debt/ebitda of 4.8 times would come down to around 3.5 times post-deal. Which, given our uncertainty over poker, the integration risks and regulatory risks in the UK, is too high in our view.’However, the valuation looked acceptable with his calculations showing a £5.4 billion merged group with net debt of £2.6 billion, £8 billion of embedded value trading at 10.6 times forecast earnings, falling to 9.3 times and with £100 million of savings.The shares gained 8p, or 2.7%, to close yesterday at 302.8p.[link]
Eadwig
10 Oct 2016
Re: Gambling firms abandon William Hill ... Warren Buffoon, "I don't know if you were joking about J Arthur. ??? But the full expression is of course J Arthur Rank. "Also known as a Ham shank in the north, where we don't use rhyming slang so much.For some reason Kenneth William's diaries just popped up from my memory, in which he often refers to a 'Barclays'.Sorry for lowering the tone!
Eadwig
10 Oct 2016
Re: Takeover talks schwee, "No wonga? "No, I don't think so - "A merger of equals, I believe".If they have a decent online interface, preferably with a well established online customer base, I'm prepared to overlook a lot of other potential negatives. I'm not saying there are any, I haven't seen any detail as yet.
elliottsilverman
25 Mar 2016
Gambling has been done since the year dot and the desire to gamble is hardwired into the human - especially male - brain. There is a place for a responsible, regulated gambling industry in society. We don't need to become all 'nanny state' about every single thing that has some potential for collateral damage; otherwise the world would become a very boring place.
