Vodafone Group Live Discussion

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! PrefInvestor1: but certainly if you look on ORB (which I have in the past If you look at ORB there isn’t much going on! It’s almost at 1 issue a year. I can understand you might prefer debt related IT’s, but as I mentioned earlier my top holdings on WA aren’t much different from the top 10 holdings on NCYF. It’s debt which ever way you look at it. Yields are right across the board on WA, so I’ve just bought Anglain Water as 5%'sh and registered an interest in Pizza Express which is 33% YTM I like to occasional gamble LOL Yes, I agree the possibility of bond prices falling, the most I’ve paid over par is 2% for shortdated, near potential call, and 4% for longdated, distant potential call. Quite a number I’ve bought below par, recognizing the risk, but as I’m working in small amounts of money at the moment, why not experiment? I get a kick from all of them, IT’s, Pref’s and Senior secured Debt. If we do get a change in interest, it’s going to effect most classes of debt and the equity representing it.

mememe 11 Jun 2019

Slight surprise that no comments on price collapse here? @jackdawsson, do you still have a trading account with ii or have you moved?

mememe 11 Jun 2019

Slight surprise that no comments on price collapse here? @J_Westlock, I’ve been using IG for a while. Excellent reports however they don’t provide contract notes. Multicurrency a/c etc I think very similar to Saxo except trades are offset against custody charges so I’ve never paid for the latter. Not too sure about customer services. I’ve still not received the FY tax certificate has Saxo sent yours? I’m glad you’re pleased with iWeb just concerned about how long it will take to do a transfer from ii and with the market being so volatile might be best to wait. BTW, I prefer the ii VP site for portfolios, charts etc to the trading site. Don’t like HL or the attitude of management. Also their excessively high charges moved away from them some years ago - no regrets.

PrefInvestor1 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! Hi Again @J_Westlock and @devonplay, I think that WiseAlpha is a good idea and it definitely opens the door to buying into bond issues that you would otherwise be locked out of because of the large minimum trading figures that quite often apply to bonds with the best coupons. BUT to be honest I am not much interested in buying bonds at the moment. Until interest rates start falling (if that happens) then bond prices are just going to fall and so any investment in bonds is going to fall in capital value. Yes you will get the coupon and if you can find a bond with a good coupon sort of 5-6% plus at an acceptable price then maybe it’s a goer - but certainly if you look on ORB (which I have in the past) there are precious few that I would want to buy. I prefer to buy debt related ITs and preference shares to get my fixed interest kick… ATB Pref

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! No they are in the loop, they are the equivilent of a nominee. It’s an interesting new asset class, it’s not without risk. I’m sure they wouldn’t thank me for saying this, but there’s just no need to rush. I’ve put in an amount that wouldn’t be a problem if I couldn’t access it or lost it and plan to add more when I see how they are getting on. If you are ove a similar mind, you could always open an account on Seedrs and see if there’s any equity available on their secondry market. That way you might get a jump on news, more than the next guy. I can’t remember what the last raise was at, but 1 might just cost you 10’s of pounds. DL

J_Westlock 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! devonplay: I seem to think you are in the US? T Nah… UK citizin in UK mainly… I do occasional contracts in the US… last one was canned half way through… maybe out there again in August… dunno. Thanks again - I will take more of a look at WiseAlpha… I do like the idea that they are making it easier for average punters to get access to bonds/notes. Finally, if WiseAlpha collapsed then the loan note would still be between the ‘bond company’ and the investor ie. WiseAlpha aren’t in the loop and are just ‘holding’ the loan note on behalf of their client? I wasn’t sure what you meant by: “Correct, although they do own the actual debt stock. You own their “notes” in the Bond.”

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! just took a look at WiseAlpha… and yes, they have a very interesting business model Agreed, if it works out it could be transformational for private investors. So… just to be clear… they charge 1% ongoing of any investments made… and 0.25% on any sale (of the Principle amount)… ate they the only charges? Yes, I belive they take the 1% from income. I think it is 0.25%, but I haven’t sold anything. I plan to hold to redemption in most cases. I was wondering how this compares to buying directly into a bond from say HL… or AJ Bell … or any other broker. Do you know the difference in charges/costs? I assume that WiseAlpha has a lot more bonds on offer than the average share broker? It’s a complicated question as not all of the bonds can be purchased from brokers, as some are only tradeable in lots of £100,000 and then multiples of £1000. It’s more they have a range of bonds, not just those on the LSE’s ORB market and they appear more often. For me, I’ve liked the chance to invest in £00’s at a time, often with ORB bonds you have to at least buy a couple of thousand quids worth. It’s been good cutting my teeth without that bigger expenditure/risk. So WiseAlpha are attempting to mirror that bond with a loan note. Correct, although they do own the actual debt stock. You own their “notes” in the Bond. Should worst happen and WiseApha go under all of a sudden There are 2 entities, which are seperated, one the technology business, the other custodial. The CEO is a nice guy and they’ll take time to talk with you if you have detailed questions. He’s an ex-Bond Fund Manager I believe. I seem to remember the average account on the site is £25k, I’m not anywhere close to that. As I say, for me I wanted to learn more about fixed income, test out the site as shareholder and long term see how they responded when a company became “stressed”. Over time I expect to get to the average account size, but I also have a money in the equity, so I’m not in any rush. If you are interested in the business they’ve had several raises on Crowdcube and early rounds on Seedrs. They’ve won a few awards for innovation in the banking sector I believe. To open an account you need to deposit £100 stering or £100 euros. “Notes” are purshased with a min. £100/E100, but you buy stock at a market reflecting price. Once you own a “note” you can make additional purchases if there’s any on the market place (internal). I once made a mistake and bought £1.30 of something LOL I’ve now bought 32 different “notes” on avearge investing £100 - £250 I have a yeld before “carry” fee of around 8% and YTM of nearly 11%. I’ve found as an investor I’ve learned quite a lot. I seem to think you are in the US? There private investors buy bonds much more than in Europe (inc UK). Mainly becuase they can do in smaller lots, where as in Europe it’s more often in lots of £100,000 to £200,000. You’ll see that reflected in the available amounts on WA. They amount they forward purchased. DL

J_Westlock 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! I just took a look at WiseAlpha… and yes, they have a very interesting business model @devonplay So… just to be clear… they charge 1% ongoing of any investments made… and 0.25% on any sale (of the Principle amount)… ate they the only charges? I was wondering how this compares to buying directly into a bond from say HL… or AJ Bell … or any other broker. Do you know the difference in charges/costs? I assume that WiseAlpha has a lot more bonds on offer than the average share broker? Finally, it seems to me… although I am a novice to this stuff I know the basics of debt instruments… that as an investor you are actually buying a loan note derived from a bond ie. you really end up with a loan note… not a % of the bond you looked up in the first place. So WiseAlpha are attempting to mirror that bond with a loan note. That correct? ie. Each investor is dealing with WiseAlpha… not the company issuing the bond. Should worst happen and WiseApha go under all of a sudden… what then happens to all the loan notes owned by investors that they’ve issued? I assume that WiseAlpha can default on them?

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! No, they don’t own the equity, it Voyages cap table I was talking about. I looks like they own the Secured notes in Voyage. Maybe own a mixture of notes. I hold XS1533911142 I’m considering buying XS1533910847 That would give me a blended yield of 8%. I see they also own some NewDay, I bought the 7.375% Febuary 2024. I’ll have a look at the Fact Sheets again, Thanks.

PrefInvestor1 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! Hi @devonplay, Well Page 2 of the RMDL June 2017 factsheet talks about Voyage Care, my understanding is that they are one of RMDLs loan customers selling them 6 year loan notes by the look of it - not that RMDL hold any equity in Voyage Care ?. rm-funds.co.uk RM-funds-q2-factsheet-FINAL.pdf 622.77 KB Surely RMDLs mode of operation is ONLY to loan money, that’s what they do isn’t it…? ATB Pref

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! I thought I might subscribe to ICG’s email update. It looks like the group had a good year. [link] And the share price has done just as well. [link] DL

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! investors.voyagecare.com Q3%202019%20-%20Voyage%20Investor%20Presentation%20(Final)(1).pdf 838.04 KB

devonplay 11 Jun 2019

Trumped Again! For individual issuses, I also like to look at relationship betwen the debt and equity in the cap table. How much is Senior, Junior, Equity. How affordable is the debt it, the coupon. It also helps if the equity is “listed” it’s easier to see what’s under the lid. Otherwise you have to dig around alot. One of the reasons I liked Voyage Care, besides the "solid underlying property portfolio ", was the cap table. There’s still a large equity position in the business. That’s good as it’s their job to absorb some of the pain if things go bad. On the downside the coupon is very high for unsecured debt, around 10%. Do you know if RMDL still holds a big chunk of this?

J_Westlock 11 Jun 2019

Slight surprise that no comments on price collapse here? Saxo is my favourite for trading, charts plus access to wide range of world markets… plus multi currency a/c. Next is iWeb… cheap and cheerful. AJ Bell next. After that I’d have to put HL. I also use a couple of others but I wouldn’t recommend them… just too expensive to move. When we’ve discussed this in the past I’ve noticed that many recommend IG… I’ve never used them for share dealing but they seem well worth a look and aren’t as expensive as some.

mememe 11 Jun 2019

Slight surprise that no comments on price collapse here? @J_Westlock, tell me about their corporate actions it’s a mess I spoke to the Customer Service Manager two years ago it is now being looked into- wait and see. There is also recently the problem (though not always) of cash from a trade not being added to the account immediately - in an ISA that can be critical if you want to purchase another stock. Took 16mins on my last trade for cash to be added back!! Is Saxo your first favourite - if not who is it.