fjbee2001
31 Jul 2017
Re: Will they be able to sell? Good name you have
indeed12
30 Jul 2017
Re: Will they be able to sell? Fascinating ... let us know if you write a book about this.
Another Jacko
30 Jul 2017
Will they be able to sell? Will TRK be able to sell their IP for any sort of decent figure? I need 1p to breakeven but even if it goes completely broke I won't lose much.It's a shame to see the fall from grace for this company I was a shareholder back in the day but sold out at a much higher price as I couldn't see them making any progress.
srsm
29 Jul 2017
Re: where we went wrong ? With hindsight I think IVT for passenger cars was a bad idea. Too big a leap, too much risk, too many vested interests and then these Dual Clutch and 9 speed ATs came along making the IVT fuel saving advantage bleed away.Which is why the shift to flywheels and then the VCharge seemed so good. Plug n Play bits that if they failed you'd still get home. Simple and relatively easy to make by all accounts. Increasing electrification shouldn't be a brake on VCharge, it could be the centre of engine downsizing as the ICE makers attempt to compete with electric. A disrupter always spurs innovation in the soon to be replaced technology. E.g. sailing ships were still profitable in the 1920's decades after steamships should have killed them off. A VCharge ICE could have a useful manufacturing life of at least the next 5 years. Possibly a bit more for certain tasks, environments. Then gradually die off as more practical battery charging solutions appear. Would a VCharge help in a petrol hybrid too? Not sure.
staffai
29 Jul 2017
where we went wrong ? i feel we spent too many years waiting to sell the ideas when we should have gone out and produced a product of our own or in a partnership with someone else .any way I now have a nice tax loss to offset any capital gains in the future .........lucky me ?
hopetown
28 Jul 2017
Re: TRK missed opportunities? Thanks for all your well informed comments over the years. Good luck in all your other investments.
old bull
28 Jul 2017
Re: Not dead yet? BJThanks for your thoughtful write up. The position is not what I would have hoped for but I believe that it is better than the current price suggests. I am tempted to buy, but threat of divorce means that I am a holder. Off highway could well deliver the goods, and other products could be revalued. The politicians and media are enthused with electrification but deeper thinkers retain a lot of skepticism; and Trump's USA has not jumpted on the bandwaggon yet.I do not blame the board for this situation (other than the Flybrid deal). I believe they have worked hard on new products and new markets. They have been better managers than we have been investors - I should have sold at 130p!
fyoz
28 Jul 2017
Re: Not dead yet? Near instant charging will be possible soon. VRFB batteries can swap the used electrolyte for charged electrolyte. It's a paradigm shift away from burning fossil fuels for personal transportSeems like we should all have listened to Inky Mike after all . . .
srsm
28 Jul 2017
Re: Not dead yet? Hope so John.I think Electric Cars are the future but why 2040 for the Govt ban?TRK suggest that all ICE development has stopped dead throughout the car making industry.And news from Volvo and BMW, Ford etc appears to support this view. So perhaps by 2021 or so every car will be electric!I don't believe this. As a comment I read somewhere stated how will people charge them on the street? My car sits at my back door. No problem. But you can't have wires trailing about the streets. So for most car owners charging will be impossible. So, the reality is that they are actually going to be Hybrids with a petrol engine that exists solely to charge the batteries or the OEMs are telling porkies. The only other alternative is near instant charging. Which will probably be invented. One day. But not today.2020-ish and goodbye ICE. 2040 Govt ban ICE.I don't get it.And remember the big car firms have been lying about fuel economy and emissions for years. So are they lying again?
basildonjohn
28 Jul 2017
Not dead yet? Yesterday my first impressions of Torotrak’s FY results were of disappointment.I had hoped that there would be signs of a commitment from JCB to go into production.JCB’s further technical endorsement of Flybrid and some kind of financial support would have been an indication of possible survival and even modest future success.But such an endorsement was missing. In and long and gloomy report, the only positive news that caught my eye was that Caterpillar had re-started their exploration of the potential of Flybrid and that there was also a new project involving Volvo cars (together with Valeo).And there had been confirmation of Steve Hughes’ appointment as Managing Director for Flybrid:‘I am very pleased to announce that Steve Hughes has accepted the role of Managing Director of Flybrid. Steve joined Torotrak three years' ago and has since then been leading the development of Flybrid product-line and customer relationships in the off-highway sector. Steve joined us from JCB where he was Engineering Director of the Transmissions Division.’Indeed, a new website is being developed for Flybrid and it is sometimes possible to view itThis page may be of particular interest [link] to Torotrak’s full year results. Overall the tone of the report was one of gloom and uncertainty However, last evening my attention was drawn to two parts of the FY results which I had ‘missed’.First, near the end of the Chairman’s letter it says:‘For the staff at Silverstone, I wish to thank them for all their hard work and to wish them every success at this exciting period in Flybrid's growth.’Second, near the end of the CEO’s review it says:‘To the staff at Flybrid, I congratulate them on their successes and look forward to our continuing journey together’So it would seem that Chairman Nick Barter and CEO Adam Robson believe that Flybrid has a future. This morning l have noted a further ‘positive’ in the FY results – We now have a proven off-highway product, offering a family of flywheel energy recovery and storage modules (ERS) for manufacture in conjunction with our Tier 2 manufacturing partners.So manufacturing partners for Flybrid have been identified – something that was proving problematic several years agoAnd what of JCB? Today’s Independent newspaper reportsJCB secures its biggest UK deal‘The construction equipment maker JCB has secured one of its biggest UK deals with an order for 1200 machines and generators worth more than £55 million. The contract is with the equipment rental firm A-Plan and the order includes 450 excavators’And what of JCB’s overall financial position. On 12 July 2017 JCB reported their full year results, growing earnings by more than 34% to £287 million.I believe that Torotrak and JCB have been working together for more than 10 years. Torotrak reported that their most recent project with JCB, one of cost reduction, had been successful. So I think that is a good chance that production will start and that further orders from JCB and others will follow I don’t need to be reminded that Trk have been far too optimistic about their prospects in the past. The current situation is dire but, in my view, Trk are not dead yet. Best wishes - BJ
marcher
28 Jul 2017
Re: TRK missed opportunities? Pseudo,Thanks for the interesting wind power links.As for the torque handling capabilities, the IVT would clearly need to be located downstream of the step up gearbox where the torque will be 30 times less than at the input shaft.I must confess that I have no knowledge regarding the scaleability of the IVT technology. This may be a limiting factor and might explain why TRK concentrated on developing a relatively low power V-charge application.marcher.
Blue Sky Boy
28 Jul 2017
A Sad Day 28th July 2017 will go down as a sad day in my investing history, namely the day I finally gave up on Torotrak and sold my shares.Having first bought in Nov 2000 in the belief (or should that be dream!) that the technology would take over the world of automatic transmissions and that British engineering brains had once again come up with a world beating idea, I avidly followed the company's progress over the following 17 years (albeit rather less so in the last couple of years). However, with the closure of the Leyland site and the proposed fire sale of the original Torotrak IP, I have finally decided to crystallise my not insignificant losses and put it down to experience!Unfortunately most of my shares were held in an ISA and hence I will be unable to benefit from the tax loss resulting from my sale. However, I do thank Torotrak for keeping my interest in shares alive over the last 17 years, avidly following its progress on a daily basis over much of that time. Without Torotrak, and in particular this BB, I might not have continued buying other shares that have actually turned out profitable.Hence, although Torotrak has cost me money, it has helped sustain my interest in shares over many years. It has also taught me one valuable lesson - Never get sentimentally attached to a share!Good luck to all remaining holders. I will still follow Torotrak's progress, but from the sidelines.
fyoz
28 Jul 2017
Genuinely sorry . . . (a bit O/T) for the faithful here. For what it's worth I think the failing was not having a fleet of demonstrators out there, no shop window so to speak. But it's water under the bridge nowI got out at 7p, gut wrenching decision to take the big loss but I reckon I found a much better opportunityEnergy storage is the next big thing, so I dumped my salvaged pot from TRK into BMN, a junior explorer/miner with vanadium assets. That was 3 years ago and I bought in at an average of 3p. Today they're just over 8p, but the upside is still massive. The market hasn't cottoned on to BMN yet, but it will soon. The shares are tightly held, over 50% by PI's who know where this is going. The best BB to look at is on LSE. The junior explorer/miner has acquired a processing plant and is now a producer, all just in time as vanadium prices are going through the roof. Very exciting timesI'm not gloating, trust me I've picked enough dogs in my time, and I took a big hit on TRK as well. But if anyone is interested in a really decent chance to recover their losses it might just be for you. Not investment advice etc, just a suggestion that many won't have heard about, all in good faith and that may sooth some of the TRK painDYOR blah blah, apologies if anyone takes offence or thinks this post is in bad taste, wasn't meant that way
marcher
27 Jul 2017
TRK missed opportunities? Regarding the use of IVT for wind power generation.........Michael,I believe pitch control is used only to limit maximum speed and torque. Adding an IVT will allow the generator to be synchronised with grid frequency (50Hz) and this would allow a much cheaper generator to be used.The synchronisation is currently achieved on higher power systems (above 1.5MW) using doubly fed induction generators (DFIG). These generators do not come cheaply. I found a 100kW system from GHREPOWER quoting £285,000.On lower power systems the generator speed varies with wind speed so static inverters are needed to achieve synchronisation. The generator hardly ever runs at its optimum speed for high efficiency.Using an IVT a stable generator speed can be produced from the varying wind turbine speed.Sudden wind speed variations could be ironed out using a flywheel (opportunity for Flybrid?) followed up by a ratio change with an IVT. marcher
StonyB
27 Jul 2017
Re: Torotrak FY results "Consequently, Flybrid has the potential to be developed into a business supplying products (in collaboration with manufacturing partners) and hence reduce the reliance on licensing as the route to market, which the experience of the last 20 years has shown to be very difficult. However, Flybrid will require significant further investment to realise this strategy and we are actively searching for partners who can provide this as well as reviewing alternative solutions from licensing/sale of the IP and assets."~So ... how long before the Torotrak name disappears, with Flybrid moving to the fore?Then they could replace 'TRK' with 'FLY', which would be appropriate.Epic. Truly Epic..StonyB~
