In the dark yet again
01 Feb 2018
Re: What's happened to RIII since June 2... holland,At the risk of stating the obvious... RIII is an Investment Trust. As with all ITs, the key long-term driver to the SP is the NAV. Yes, discounts can bounce around in the short-term but if an IT keeps it's NAV driving forward, well, "build it and they will come" is a quote that springs to mind.And, since last year's simplification capital structure, they've had a discount management programme in place (10% target if you were unaware) which has gotten the discount down and kept it relatively stable.NAV per share (including income albeit unaudited) 30/06/17 2,353.56p[link] per share 31/12/17 (most recent) 2,372.35p[link] around 20p, less than 1% so expect the SP to move by less than 1% which, given the low volumes and largish bid/offer spread on RIII, means you won't even see it - a single, even relatively small, trade could cause the Market Makers to bounce it by that and more.As FD correctly says, RIII have been into some gems for a while now but (maybe?) a few have gotten a touch ahead of themselves - happens all the time because of the usual herd instinct of the market 'professionals' and the tea-leaf/bone readers (a.k.a TA/Chartists).RIII don't publish huge amounts of data but those NAV RNSs detail the holdings by size, usually once a month, coupled with their interim and final reports tell you pretty much everything you need to know. It's a very static portfolio they have, clearly a buy-and-hold strategy, relatively low overheads (relative to many other ITs that is) so if they have a few investments that run wild for a few years, there's always the chance they'll not go far in the next few; nothing wrong with the underlying business just fundamentals that TAs can never see.Plus (FD again on the money) the directors of RIII have significant stakes in RIII and when you look at the trust's investments, most of those companies have directors with serious holdings. Important because the shareholdings are worth way more than the salaries so guess where they have their 'vested' interest? It's a long-term thing, not a hit-and run, immediate gratification..... although it's been none to shabby in recent years.Anyway, check the old NAV RNSs; it tells pretty much the whole story. And, using the most recent, if you don't like the look of the bigger holdings, sell your RIII.... simplesRegards,ITDYA, happy to sit tight because it's so different from most of my other investments.
farmerdave
25 Jan 2018
Re: What's happened to RIII since June 2017? They have a number of companies that I think got a bit ahead of themselves (Scapa etc) - they also sold some scapa (still biggest holding) and reinvested some of that in colefax and RPC. Colefax I am not as happy with (London high end having issues) but RPC am a little unsure of - it is doing well and all the analysts love it but its shareprice has gone sideways/down - it has acquired many cos and built up debt and is in the plastics market when some companies have said they are no longer going to use plastic packaging.....Think with these ITs the underlying companies need to be looked at. Like RIII as CEO has skin in the game and like midcaps at present that have international exposureFD
holland44
24 Jan 2018
What's happened to RIII since June 2017? RIII's share price has been oscillating between 2150 and 2250 since last June. Meanwhile, other small-cappers have gone marching on. Try using the Chart tool on this website and compare RIII with trusts like BRSC, SDV, IIT, THRG, and even HSL and JMF, which are more mid-cap specialists: they did very well throughout last year.Not that I'm complaining: look over 3 years and RIII beats them all, except for Independent which has been spectacular and even then, RIII was beating it until last June, when suddenly it ground to a halt. It's just odd. Does anyone have any thoughts?
Warren Rabbitt
08 Mar 2017
Re: RIII now much more attractive I don't have any fundamental objection to splits. One of may largest holdings is SDV which has served up handsome dividends and capital growth over the last few years. The structure of ordinary shares geared by zeros is simple to understand. In order to keep track of R&I nav I have created a watchlist which approximates the trust's holdings and then jkeep an eye on that. Seems to do the trick.I don't mind having my stash concentrated in a few trusts.Most of the value is in just three investment trusts and one OEIC - but together these hold over well 100 different shares based both in the UK and abroad. Theory shows that the benefits of diversification show diminishing returns with more than 30 different shares so I am well above that limit. I have held more trusts in the past but now prefer to focus and have achieved better results this way. I do like managers who have a very large stake in their own trust. This is true for Simon Knott and other family members and also true for Terry Smith of Fundsmith.
In the dark yet again
07 Mar 2017
Re: RIII now much more attractive Split caps had gotten a bad name - and rightly so given so many of the managers were misusing it as a fee gravy train (so many were just investing in other split caps, not selecting their own shares so the whole thing ends up almost like a pyramid scheme) but not R&I, it was done properly so I didn't have a huge issue... though I do admit I did have a problem trying to workout which class offered the best value. I did find that if I let the dividends roll up that, although the capital shares had more growth, the dividend from the income shares allowed me to buy more - didn't quite keep pace but not a million miles out.But I was hugely in favour of the conversion - I wish they had done it at NAV rather than the 4 for 1 although it wasn't that far out but then they were 'big ticket shares' so missing out on even 1 just because the fractions didn't add up would have been annoying. The single class makes life much easier. Investors who wouldn't consider split caps due to the previous scandal may now be interested, the liquidity does seem a little better and putting the discount management in place makes me feel much more comfortable in that there is a bid out there should I choose to sell - the bid/offer spread could often be prohibitive in the past.Relatively static fund in terms of their investments, mainly 250 and smaller cap companies, all of which I'm happy about as it's a balance for some of my much more conservative investments - it's mainly my SIPP and it's heavy utilities - good income, low capital risk which is how I like a pension!Anyway, good to here someone else is out there. Not doing very much at the moment but that seems mainly because the discount is drifting out a touch. Wish they'd publish a NAV statement a bit more often - I do have an estimate on spreadsheet but I'd always prefer a real one.Regards,ITDYA thinking a little bit of risk sounds OK but I'm not sure I'd want 15% of my stash in here.
Warren Rabbitt
05 Mar 2017
RIII now much more attractive I was an RIIC shareholder for several years but finally sold out because of the (partly) split capital structure. The capital shares paid quite a lot of income and the income shares also had some capital growth. I could never really work out what was good value. The discount was nice but the odd structure seemed to put off many investors so it seemed unlikely to close much.The trust fell off my radar and I only recently noticed the conversion to a one class share structure, which was very interesting, as I really rate Simon Knott as a fund manager and his approach complements my other investments. I also like discount control mechanisms which can add value for long term investors.Bought a few and RIII is now circa 15 percent of my portfolio. It will be interesting to see how the trust progresses over the next year.
In the dark yet again
09 Dec 2016
Discount Management... Possibly just talking to myself again but more good news...... at least in the short-term.Most recent NAV was 1951p so if the buybacks drive the discount down to 10% as is targeted then that's a 1756 target. Apart from the buyback purchases the volume that have actually been traded is very small; the big move was simply the market makers marking it up in anticipation. Given that it's a fair few they can buy and the natural volume is so low I'm thinking that maybe they'll get close to the target fairly quickly without too much trouble.Why do I mention short-term? Because often when the buyback program ends then things just drift back to where they were before.At 10% discount they can probably have a few of mine back, though I love the idea of there being a pretty firm bid out there all the time - that was always the worry; lack of liquidity when you try to cash in some chips.I shall be building a 'portfolio' over the weekend matching RIII's holdings based on the last NAV statement - might not be perfect but, given most of it is quoted, it should reflect most of any movement in NAV between announcements.Regards,ITDYA.... wondering if I am alone out here.
In the dark yet again
09 Jun 2016
Re: conversion Conversion complete. Given the (as usual) massive bid/offer spread it's difficult to tell the real price but buys at 1475 and sells at 1425 today so call it 1450(???) x 4 = 5800 for the old RIIC..... roughly..Happy with that; I have to conclude that the conversion from a split cap to a standard IT has been very positive as there hasn't been any significant movement in the NAV.Now where?Regards,ITDYA
In the dark yet again
10 May 2016
Re: conversion "The terms of conversion are fair enuff"Thanks for that. Sort of what I thought. As at 31/03/2016 NAV RIIC was 6,447.95p and RIII 1,530.83p so 4 to 1 is about 5% out - would be much happier if it was 5% the other way!Never had a problem buying at 20%+ discount, indeed sold out of some of my Treat and Scapa since it's in here anyway and at that substantial discount. Still probably a net buyer so don't really want the discount to close until the day before I start liquidating!Fees - umm.... the guys really don't do very much. 3 NEDs 1 exec, no employees. The assets have barely changed (not necessarily a bad thing as churning rarely works) so £17k a year for the 9 odd meeting to the NEDs, £5k extra to the chairman and £215 k to Mr Knott for doing..... what? And a TER of 48bp isn't trivial, it's actually quite a lot of money considering.Liquidity, you could be right. 1 class of share rather than 2 can only help matters and the split-cap was an issue for people who didn't really appreciate that this split cap was done 'properly', not merely a split cap that merely held assets in other split caps (a management fee ponzi scheme if ever I heard of one.Anyway, thank for the comments - still think they should meld the two on the basis of matching the NAVs at the appropriate date but I guess I'll just have to swallow the 5%. Nice for the RIII holders though.Regards,ITDYA
jezza51
10 May 2016
Re: conversion Am long term holder of riic. The terms of conversion are fair enuff bit Harsh to suggest directors are overpaid and do nothing. They operate with very low fees and this reflects their philosophy - the IM's family have managed this for decades and the returns are good and the holdings interesting. There is long term investment and very little turnover so again they should not be criticised for this. Personally I haate discount management arrangements but the bid discount should get closer to 10 percent - so they are worth holding for this. I doubt liquidity will improve as it is tightly held and likely to continue. SHAME in a way that the market didn't recognise the value and the quality of perf record - but I used to enjoy buying at 25 percent discount. Think the trust will continue for another 10 years and hopefully longer if they continue with same approach. The markets abilty to misprice the sort of companies they buy should give more opportunities.
In the dark yet again
10 May 2016
conversion Anybody out there?Just in case there is anyone other than me, any thoughts on the conversion? Details under the news tab.As I read it, it's eliminating the split capital 'trust' by consolidating into a single 'simple' Investment Trust. Swapping the each RIIC share for a RIII then topping up with a further 3 RIIs, i.e. 4 RIII for each RIIC - no idea why they are doing it 1 for 1 with 3 bonus shares rather than a straight 4 for 1other than, without knowing the full ins and outs, I'd assume there's some tax reason.Me, I have both, in value terms about £2 of RIIC for every £1 RIII but much of that is just down to the fact that RIIC was meant to have the bulk of the capital gain and RIII the bulk of the income.Not sure how fair the terms are as the bid/offer is always so wide but a 'consolidated' trust should be more liquid and the mere phrase 'split cap' will no doubt have put off some people given the checkered history of many such beasts so maybe a natural pick up? Plus it would make it much easier to wind the whole thing up at nearly NAV if they were thinking it's run it's course... though given the directors fees for doing pretty much s0d all that does sound a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.Any thoughts, from anyone? Anyone seen any comments in the press of from 'analysts'?Regards,ITDYA, very much in the dark this time.
