Gooffy
07 Nov 2016
Tomorrow Any experts out there will there be a spike tomorrow as when scrips are bought?Worth selling into??
Krayl
07 Nov 2016
Re: Rights My rights were taken up today on Barclays, but what I don't understand is that they have been kept separate under the EPIC of PHNF, which is quoted at 11p higher price than PHNX. Surely it is normal to amalgamate them into the same share?
Gooffy
07 Nov 2016
Cripes My portfolio goes down on the day Tesco gets robbed supposedly by a government now.Can't be putin can it think it would have gone up ha ha.Panic over it's my rights but the share value doesn't show yet.Anyone else panicked today.
TX2
01 Nov 2016
Re: Rights The timetable was given on the 4th Oct by Phoenix;see under News Tab.New shares should be credited to our accounts on 9th November.However exactly when money is deducted from your broker account to pay will be as advised by your broker & is usually a day or so before the date given in the Phoenix circular to allow them to pass it on.I think mine is being deducted on 2nd November from memory.
Gooffy
01 Nov 2016
Rights Opted to take them up, silly not too.So do my rights get converted and paid for on 4th Nov?
Krayl
25 Oct 2016
Rights issue arithmetic Bit of arithmetic – please check!If you bought 1200 shares at 883 two days ago it would have cost you £10596.You can then buy 700 shares at 508 which is £3556, for a total outlay of £14152You now have 1900 shares at 757 which are worth £14383.Your average purchase price was 745.So you are a little better off at the current price.
TX2
25 Oct 2016
Re: Ex Rights? The shares went ex rights today(Tuesday);the rights(7 for 12) are currently trading at about 247p.More or less in line with yesterdays price when taken together.
Dictum de dicto
24 Oct 2016
99% approved Pretty clear cut approval then:[link] like it will go through with the rest being more of a formality. The day traders have been active today, selling in advance of the new shares coming on stream. We could see some firther drops although my guess is that they won't go far before bouncing back up. The cash flows and dividend streams are too attractive to the institutions to ignore. It would not surprise me to see it get up to 900p, notwithstanding the extra shares in issue. Perhaps not this week but possibly before Christmas. We'll see.
Gooffy
24 Oct 2016
Ex Rights? So the fall is due to ex rights.One of the few shares I am making money on, lloyds (one day rodders)Secretly wish I had put it in here!
Dictum de dicto
15 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) September Broker forecasts Canaccord Genuity 930pHSBC 920pNumis 938pAll three before the Sept 28th announcement so we don't know the degree to which they bet on the Abbey deal coming off. However, 'Phoenix said the deal, which is expected to generate about £0.5bn of aggregate cash flows between 2016 and 2020 and approximately £1.1bn from 2021 onwards, will add £10bn of assets under management and about 735,000 policyholders.'On a simply cash + assets basis the numbers work but on a cash flow / NPV basis the deal should add value. I have not run an NPV but I would guess the market would take it up from your baseline calculation to the 900p again after initial trading. £0.5bn is not to be sniffed at albeit it's not clear what the timeline is for the post 2021 cash flow expectation. I think the price paid for Abbey is not quite distress but DB is under a lot of financial stress and needs cash quickly. Phoenix would have got a decent deal. I hold this in my SIP so on the basis of dividend yield the rights issue is also attractive. That yield may well come down a bit but it will remain pretty good. I'll be taking up my rights with an expectation that the SP will bounce back in due course.
Medway Man
12 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) Your example outcome is fine, provided it does exactly that; but what if?????I guess it also depends on whether your existing holding is in profit or a loss?As I said in a message of the other day; I was sitting on a reasonable size gain.....so sold out totally, as in my mind, my gain outweighed doing the rights issue and divi due (and that does not mean I am against buying Abbey Life). I will buy back in (probably £20,000 worth - as I have nearly that on my ISA pot) asap after the price has adjusted.
PJ Foster
12 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) So I thought I'd do some basic maths, to figure out what impact the rights issue will have.For the sake of this illustration, assume I have 1200 shares.Right now:The share price is 880pThere are 248,098,643 shares.The company is valued at 8.8 * 248,098,643 pounds. = £2.183 Billion.My holding is worth £10,560After rights issue:Number of new shares is: 248,098,643 / 12 * 7, = 144,724,208Total number of shares is now: 392,822,851The amount of cash raised is 5.08 * 144,724,208 pounds. = £0.735 Billion.The company's value is: Old value + Cash value = £2.918 BillionThe new share price will be: New value / Number of shares = 742pSo, imapct to me is:I bought 700 new shares for 508p each = it cost me £3,556My new holding of 1900 shares is now worth 1900 * 742p = £14,098That means I've increased the value of my holding by £3,538So, more or less the same.What to do? I guess it all comes down to the impact of the purchase of Abbey Life. If Phoenix got a bargain, then the value of the post rights company should increase by more than the value of the cash raised.PJ, mulling over the options.....
TX2
08 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) Phoenix are raising cash for a specific purpose to buy Abbey Life.It seems a decent deal,Deutsche Bank need to raise cash,they have a huge fine to pay & have many other well known problems & would have been willing sellers.But apart from this most of Phoenix institutional investors,and many other funds have shed loads of clients cash to invest in anything that produces a good income & cash flow to generate dividend return.This deal does just that.I suspect most rights will be taken up & there will be fair demand for extra rights in the market.
LoadsaDosh2
08 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) Equally obvious is that I meant the share price will fall further than its pro rata ex rights price while the rights are being traded. This is nearly always the case where traders/shorters try to get the price down towards or less than the rights price.
TX2
07 Oct 2016
Re: Rights Issue(to Loadsa) It is a statement of the obvious that the shareprice will fall when the shares go ex-rights more or less pro rata to the rights issue price & the value of the rights.The deal to buy Abbey Life seems a decent proposition & should be value enhancing in the longer term.
