Hardboy
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Investment Trusts have been around longer; and offer a much better model. Unit Trusts only came in to allow the Financial services industry to fleece their clients to the maximum; and boy, have they ben successful. RDR was much needed and should do a lot to bring the 2 models into line, but as you point out, IT's still have benefits.
Rober01
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP One of the Oeics is managed by the same manager as this IT and apparently is constituted much the same.. If you look at performance/yield it is obvious why Oeics are such a dead loss IMO. Despite the fact the management costs in general have come down, they still suffer from being unable to use gearing to enhance their performance. Additionally they are at the whim of the market when it comes to redeeming units, either through having to sell their best holdings at the worst possible time and/or restrict access and/or alter pricing.
Hardboy
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP I've had a reply from my query about whether or not the costs have already been deducted from the NAV. If nothing else it seems our enquiring minds are making M&G staff understand what is happening. Here is the reply in full: "Thank you for your email. In the brochure we have recently posted to investors, we say: 'The value of your holding at wind-up is calculated by multiplying the number of Package or Income and Growth Units by their Terminal Asset Value (TAV). The Company’s TAV will be calculated by deducting £350,000, which reflects an estimation of the costs it would incur in relation to its liquidation, and additional sundry costs and expenses as set out in Part IV of the Circular, from the Net Assets of the Company on the Calculation Date (15 March 2017).' However, as you have said, the Scheme of Reconstruction indicates that the £350,000 has already been deducted. I will check and let you know when I have established if the wind up cost has already been deducted. Yours sincerely Steve Taylor Customer Relations Consultant"
72_fastback
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Cash for me too (MGHI). The rollover options are particularly uninspiring.Not sure where the £30m market value is from - net assets per the recently released interims of £429m, and £439m per yesterday's NAV release.ZDPs will probably pinch a penny or so from MGHU/MGHI to make up their 122.8p but I would still expect us to get 52p or so (barring any meltdown between now and winding up).My broker tells me that the cash option is subject to 'scaleback', but doesn't give any details.Many thanks to all for sharing the findings of your good work.
Hardboy
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Thanks Rober,I'm not sure where I got the market value from - I certainly checked some trusted website before posting, but can't remember which. Thanks too for the funds to have a look at. I certainly will have a look. I agree about the JPM Investment Trust. I think the Income variety was not too bad; but the other 2 would not attract me in the least. As you say they had to offer something, but would prefer people staying with M&G, so presumably the OEIC option might be more attractive, but I refuse to look at UT/OEICs on principal.
Rober01
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP HardboyMy second addition will be HDIV a fixed interest IT, again yielding 5 Per cent+ but with a high content of inflation linked loans. I have had my eye on this for a considerable time awaiting inflation rising which is now starting to happen and which should lead to an increased yield.Other additions will be to my existing portfolio and will include dollar loan ITs yielding 10 and 12 per cent respectively and possibly an addition to my single Euro denominated IT which yields six per cent or so. An addition to my Asian portfolio yielding six per cent may well follow.These are key additions but there will be a number of others.I do not anticipate any of this happening before April and the triggering of Article 50. That should prove fun!!!
Rober01
27 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP hardboySorry I think you will find the fund is worth £30 million, split into 3 types of shares of 995000 units each? Still whatever.The circular is available on the M&G high income Investment Trust site ,if you have not seen it (50 pages or so long) and goes into absolute detail.Bye the way, I had another look at the only Investment Trust option they are offering in the circular and so far as I am concerned it is a dog. Still I suppose they felt they had to offer something and there is little else out there!!I will be replacing the these two shares with my only two additions to my portfolio, one of which will be MRCH which itself was replaced by me with these two shares some years ago. With a very similar portfolio to this IT, a 20+ years history of increasing dividends and 5 per cent plus yield , why would I buy a riskier, poor dividend option like they are offering. Anyway best of luck to us all.Cheers
Hardboy
26 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Well done, Rober, that's good news that the costs have already been allowed for. As you say, we now need to hope the markets hold up between now and then, or the managers are cashing in more of their equity holdings. I've actually been amazed at markets this year - after a Santa Rally there is often a reaction in January; and the record high after record high, day after day, was amazing. It's not as if we have a stable world economy at the moment; with a far less certain future than we have had for ages. One point you made, was "if the NAV does not exclude the 14p per share then at the rate of 55.6p per share yesterday, the maximum net Nav would be 41.6p per share" That explains your high concern about where the £350k sat. I'm fairly sure you've got a decimal point wrong. I believe £350k works out as 0.14p per share, not £0.14. The fund is worth over £1b, so £350k is less than 0.035% of the value of the fund. Anyway it's all clear now. And thanks for the reminder about the Zero shares. I'd not forgotten. I've had so much trouble getting my brain round this split capital set up, that I think it's ingrained now. Out of interest; assuming you are going to invest the proceeds of this winding up for income, do you mind me asking what you've got your eyes on?
Rober01
26 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP HardboyI now have the definitive answer to the question of the 350k costs from my lady Marie. A Circular Document was issued on the 19 January 2017 in which on Page 5 there is statement entitled Costs & Expense. This statement specifically says that the 350K has already been taken before the NAV now being issued.issued.No doubt you will be receiving this and will be able to check the statement for yourself in black and white..The only concern for me now is a general drop in the market before the payment date. Keep everything crossed and hang on to your hat!!!Cheers
Rober01
26 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Incidentally, I presume you are aware that the NAV for the shares other than the Zeros is dependent upon the final value of the Zeros being met in full, before any other capital payments. An interesting quirk of Split Capital Trusts!!
Rober01
26 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP I spoke to a lady named Maria Pritchard at the help center who seemed to have a handle on the situation.However she wished to confirm with the particular management team that her thoughts were correct. She promised to get back to me in due course. She did say that a new set of notes had been prepared for issue at the end of January, but on looking at these her response suggested that they still did not directly answer the vital question on costs.If and when she responds further I will of course let you know.One thing is clear that if the NAV does not exclude the 14p per share then at the rate of 55.6p per share yesterday, the maximum net Nav would be 41.6p per share and I might as well all sell to the market at greater price apparently available there(at least at yesterday for me).
Hardboy
25 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP Rober:"Do you have a point of contact to address please."I just use the general enquiry email address "[email protected]"A Lee McGill has replied in the past. I'm not sure if it was he who replied to my latest e ail as I kept the salient detail but deleted the full e mail.
Rober01
25 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP I have spoken to the Company and the person I spoke to has looked at this matter and believes that the 350K is taken out of the NAV each night.She understands the importance of this question and will speak to the management team and confirm it to me later on today.
Rober01
25 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP HardboyNoted. Ex Dividend date is 26/1/2017. A key date for me. Do you have a point of contact to address please.Cheers
Hardboy
24 Jan 2017
Re: Winding UP "why do you intend to wait to indicate your preference."You make a good point; and I can not offer a purely logical explanation. I suppose, if markets do collapse, there is no value for me in taking a sizeable capital loss this financial year; and if the Investment Trust which is currently yielding 3.64% increased significantly, it may just persuade me to roll over into that and take some income whilst waiting for markets to turn round again. If a week's a long time in politics, a month can be a positive era in financial markets.
