alioua
26 Apr 2018
Re: Interim Statement i find the results disappointing and the sp has been eroded in recent months- people here in general ssem to like this company please can someone with insight tell what is attractive about it
marktime1231
26 Apr 2018
Interim Statement An extract of relevance to the tax debate ..."The April dividend will be paid on 30 April 2018 and will amount to Euro 0.238 per share (Euro 0.22 per share, net). The April gross dividend is increased to offset the element of Dutch withholding tax applicable."On which basis I am happy with my approach to continue to hold EAT outside a tax wrapper and declare the dividends as Overseas Dividend paid net of tax withheld at source, in this case at the rate of 7.5% so approx neutral vis the UK starter rate. Otherwise the report confirms a small decline in NAV over the first quarter, exaggerated when converted from EUR to GBP, which also takes the edge off the GBP value of the dividend. New equity continues to be issued at a small premium. The 10-for-1 stock split was approved for 3 May.I have jumped the gun and added to my holdings, EAT is down in the dumps still while other European small caps have seen a sharp recovery this morning, and I will look to do so again depending on how the market reacts to the stock split. My end of year target of 1345p (135) is looking ambitious but I am hoping we have seen the bottom of this trough.
Rober01
13 Apr 2018
Re: Overseas dividends - grateful for ad... "an ISA or SIPP which is there to shield you from tax, difficult to recover the tax paid "If a REIT it is not !!! I do it through my brokers on a quarterly basis ( It does take 8 weeks but that is HMRC for you)
marktime1231
12 Apr 2018
Re: Overseas dividends - grateful for ad... If Bob was a woman he'd be your aunt.If you have dividend or income producing stocks which pay net of tax deducted at source, why hold them in an ISA or SIPP which is there to shield you from tax, difficult to recover the tax paid (how would you) especially on overseas dividends. Outside an ISA or SIPP you can use tax already paid on some dividends to offset liability on others ... its a bit like increasing your tax free dividend allowance.Competition for restricted space in tax free wrappers is an issue for many people.
deepsleeves
12 Apr 2018
Re: Overseas dividends - grateful for advice MarkUnless you are fortunate enogh to be able to add £20k to your ISA each year and/or the value of your holdings in these stocks is substantial enough to make transfer to an ISA /SIPP difficult then the answer surely is to use a tax wrapper if possibleDeep
marktime1231
12 Apr 2018
Re: Answering my own question Thanks SG good gen from source. My own maths and the dividend statements from EAT suggest an effective witheld tax rate of 10-12%. The default tax treaty rate is 15% so not sure why different, maybe a reflection of Ned tax status of this product, the reason why this trust while UK approved operates out of Ned.These are not necessarily UK dividends just because the trust shares are listed on the LSE. So I think when you declare this as an Overseas Dividend on your self-assessment you get a UK credit for the tax already paid eg held at source. Might as well hold them outside a tax wrapper is my conclusion ... but as has been well said this is jolly complicated and you need to form your own opinion or get advice.If you are in any doubt before submitting tax returns I guess you can enquire direct of EAT for their comment. The annual statement I get from my broker/platform identifies these as Overseas Dividends and the receipt net.
sharegardener
12 Apr 2018
Re: Answering my own question P58 onwards of 2017 annual report gives some explanations (5 pages) but Im no expert on the nitty gritty.But best to read through and see what you think!The company has some tax exemptions:''The Company is a tax resident of the Netherlands and qualifies as a fiscal investment institution (‘fiscale beleggingsinstelling’
.Companies with fiscal investment institution status in the Netherlands are subject to tax on both income and capital gains in the Netherlands at a zero rate.''''The Dutch dividend withholding tax is 15 per cent. Therefore, where withholding tax is applicable to dividends paid by the Company, these dividends are subject to a Dutch dividend withholding tax rate of 15 per cent. The Dutch dividend withholding tax rate can be reduced under a tax treaty.The double taxation agreement between the Netherlands and the United Kingdom currently allows a general dividend withholding tax of 15 per cent. This withholding tax is available as a credit against any United Kingdom tax payable by a United Kingdom resident shareholder in respect of dividends.''Dividend withholding tax (section under Netherlands taxation)''The existing fiscal reinvestment reserve (roughly equalling the balance of realised and unrealised capital gains) is treated as paid in capital for dividend withholding tax purposes. This also applies to additions to this reserve in later years. Distributions which are made out of paid in capital in principle can be made free of withholding tax. In determining whether these payments can be made free of withholding tax out of paid in capital, certain mandatory ordering rules apply. In general these ordering rules deem a dividend to come out of earnings (income on an accruals basis) before coming out of paid in capital. For payments coming out, or deemed to come out, of earnings withholding tax at a rate of 15 per cent is due. This withholding tax is available as a credit against any United Kingdom tax payable by a United Kingdom resident shareholder in respect of dividends.Of the dividends paid in 2017, an amount of €7,431,595 has been paid in order to meet the distribution obligations under Dutch tax law, subject to dividend withholding tax. The remainder of €19,623,766 is charged against the fiscal reinvestment reserve, without dividend withholding tax.''This seems to imply that only some of the divi is subject to 15% witholding tax?SG
chemistthe
12 Apr 2018
Re: Answering my own question I think you've got this wrong. Yes, you don't need to pay an additional WHT, but if you hold outside an ISA you will still need to pay income tax on your income.
Bahia Prince
12 Apr 2018
Re: Answering my own question This seems to be a really tricky question, not one that I had even thought about, and not one that I am qualified in any way to answer. My own simple opinion has always been to treat this as a normal UK based IT, as the registered shares are traded on LSE and dividends paid in sterling.Would be really interested if anyone else has a view on this before I try to complete my self assessment for this year?Regards.
marktime1231
12 Apr 2018
Answering my own question according to the year end divi announcement ..."Dividends are declared in Euros and paid in Sterling (registered shares) or in Euros (bearer shares). The Euro to Sterling exchange rate that will be applied will be selected for a date as close as practicably possible to each of the four payment dates. For illustrative purposes only, applying the exchange rate as at 31 December 2017 would result in the payment of total 2018 dividends of £0.7811 per share (2017: actual payment of £0.6914 per share, net of withholding tax)."So the actual repayment we receive is net of a bilaterally agreed witholding tax which means that we can interpret EAT as tax-paid overseas dividends and hold them for income outside a tax wrapper. That is my interpretation anyway.
marktime1231
11 Apr 2018
Overseas dividends - grateful for advice It is that time to tot up dividends, and plan for the year ahead since the allowance has been cut to £2K. Overseas dividends are especially interesting in their diferent guises. I still holdPLUS (Israel) which witholds 25% of dividend at source. Defo no point in holding in a tax wrapper, may use tax overpaid to offset a tax liability. Could seek a 10% waiver from Israel but the process too difficult.EAT (Ned) who I think pay the dividend in a structure where the final instalment effectively makes it tax neutral for the year, but not sure I am remembering the smallprint in the annual report correctly. If it is paying divdends net of tax deducted at source in compliance with a bilateral tax treaty with the UK then EAT may as well be held outside a tax wrapper too ... is that right, has anyone examined this?SMIF (Guernsey) nominally tax paid but under a zero tax regime, so might HMRC want to take some tax and at what rate ... 7.5% starting? Every risk of ending up in the Paradise Papers here and with HGM (Jersey, Russia) where I think dividends are paid gross, or is there a supertax deducted at source in Russia. Actually not sure and I don't think HGM are too bothered since the company is run for the benefit of non-dom Russians, if and when they identify an FD on the UK board will be able to ask. I suspect these are liable as UK dividends too.Last year I declared these and other Overseas Dividends along with a figure for tax already deducted to HMRC in one section next to UK gross dividend receipts in another and net property income in another and ... oh you get me. The overall numbers were not troubling viz-a-viz the UK tax gap and the allowances / offset / complexity such that HMRC decided after a few questions to treat me as tax neutral - about right, actually may have been due a small rebate thanks to PLUS but not worth pursuit. This year just gone will be similar but next year the cut in allowance makes a difference.I have no desire to aggressively avoid UK tax, but I don't want to invite an unnecessary liability either. Can some or all of these Overseas Dividend stocks be held safely outside tax wrappers without UK dividend tax liability ... EAT the key question. I have got some in a SIPP and some in the open.
sharegardener
08 Apr 2018
Re: Stock split etc - views please Hi MT,ii do now have a voting facility which has worked for me with other companies - a recent addition requiring opt-in.''This page allows you to view information and vote on decisions relating to shareholdings in your portfolio.''''Please note that the Voting & Information is only available on UK listed shareholdings.''As EAT is Netherlands based that probably explains why I havent received any AGM voting info - though it is listed on the LSE.SG
marktime1231
04 Apr 2018
Re: Stock split etc - views please I have voted in favour. I will wait for the dust to settle after 3 May before considering adding to my EAT holding, where the sp is now looking very good value. European stocks taking a battering because Trump wants to butt heads with everyone and anyone, but his promises usually turn to dust when his tantrums recede.The invite to register an online vote came from AJBell YouInvest to where I have recently transfered my old Interactive Investor holding. Other platforms do not have this sophisticated facility. I am warming to AJBell, will be testing their service with a phone trade of some bonds later.Just waiting (since 6 Feb) for the remaining transfer of cash from II, and they have retained some dividends (since 22 Mar) on stock transferred in specie, but then my business with them will be concluded. Yippee.
azzalyzarc
03 Apr 2018
Re: Stock split etc - views please I think split is beneficial for reasons of monthly savings (if you invest 100/month you can easily end up with 10% uninvested and higher costs). Makes it more appealing for me as I prefer to build up long term isa holdings with monthly savings and div reinvestment Az
sharegardener
03 Apr 2018
Re: Stock split etc - views please Thanks MT, I hadnt seen this - probably because my shares are in ISA nominee account so I havent received any AGM voting documents.But Ive just downloaded the 2017 Annual Report (with Berlin pic on the cover) and on p11''Stock splitIn response to shareholder comment and to improve marketability, the Company will seek approval at the forthcoming General Meeting to undertake a stock split. If approved, with effect from 3 May 2018 each shareholder will receive ten shares for every one share held. The quarterly dividends payable on 31 July and 31 October 2018 would be adjusted commensurately from €0.22 to €0.022 per share.''There doesnt appear to be any consistency in share price 'optimal level'. Royal Sun Alliance (RSA) I recall had a consolidation 5:1 as they thought the shares looked unattractively cheap at 100p ish.Conversely Primary Health Properties (PHP) had a 1:4 split when 450p ish was perceived as too pricey - they said:''We plan to restructure the Company's share capital to improve the marketability of our shares for shareholders. We propose to sub-divide each of the Company's shares with shareholders receiving four new Ordinary Shares in exchange for each existing Ordinary Share they hold.''EAT going for 10:1 split may reflect problems with scrip div/auto-reinvesting dividends (now quarterly) as the unspent amount for less than 1 whole share has to be carried forward to the next div payment as cash. Same applies to people paying into monthly savings.Good point also about the issuing of new shares being easier if a tenth of the price.I tend to let Divs from various holdings accumulate as cash (to minimise dealing costs) and then add something that is on a price dip. The Bid-Offer spread usually widens or narrows with liquidity/demand and size of Co. today EAT is 5p (approx 0.4%) but it is often more like 1% or over. Big FTSE100 Co's such as RDSB spread is around 0.05%. Also, at 2250p Shell dont appear to be concerned about doing a split!Overall, EAT split looks like a sensible move but with fairly minimal consequences.SG
