sinnet
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question Yes that's right
Guitarsolo
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question Thanks Sinnet, so the realised gain (the cash) is £20,176 - £8,719 = £ 11,457? That would appear logical (sorry for missing out the NOT before!). GS
sinnet
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question In effect but you do not apportion the gain, you apportion the cost. Say you have 5,200 CGL shares, you will receive £20,176 in cash (388p per share) and 676 XL shares worth about £15,923 at today's price. You will also receive 34p in dividends I think, but that does not affect the CGT comp.So your total capital proceeds are £36,099. If the shares cost you 300p (ie cost £15,600), then the portion of the cost attributable to the cash proceeds will be 15,600 x (20,176/36,099) = £8,719. The cost of the XL shares will be 15,600 - 8,719 = £6,881.
share 123 maiden
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question You said "That appears logical to me but HMRC's rules are always logical!"Think you actually meant "That appears logical to me but HMRC's rules are NOT always logical!", in which case I would be in agreement with you!
Guitarsolo
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question Sinnet: "You have to apportion the cost of holding between the XL shares and the cash received in the offer, based I think on their value when the offer goes unconditional. So although you can defer selling the XL shares and so possibly push that part of the gain into another tax year, the cahs element will be a realised capital gain. "Thanks for your comments. So if the cash element represents circa 60% of the overall XL offer (final value to be determined) then I need to assign 60% of my CGL capital gain to my CGT calculations (assuming I don't sell the XL shares received from 6 April)? That appears logical to me but HMRC's rules are always logical!
Ru 8746
22 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question Did I miss a timetable? Do we know this is going to go through before 6th April?I did find the following on Catlin's website:A Mix and Match Facility will be provided which will allow Catlin Shareholders (other than certain Overseas Shareholders) to elect, subject to off-setting elections being made by other Catlin Shareholders, to vary the proportions in which they receive New XL Shares and cash.I guess quite a few Catlin holders will see if they can go for 100% cash, but then again, if you think this won't impact the XL Group share price too much, you still like the Catlin business and don't hate XL Group, maybe you'll want to swing the other way?As sinnet says, in any taxable portfolio, you'll have to account for cash received as disposal proceeds, plus, I suspect, the value of any XL Group shares received, as at a date to be specified. I would then expect the value of XL Group shares used for that to become your base cost for any CGT calculations required if you sell them in the future. But I also expect confirmation to come out from Catlin on this, when the timetable comes out (unless I have missed these).If you have a spouse, look like you're going to crystallise enough gains to create a CGT liability and don't have any losses you want to crystallise now (or in the tax year this goes through), if you are married, I would deffo consider transferring some/all to your spouse (esp. if (s)he only pays basic rate income tax and you pay higher rate). You may then want to let her/him keep the proceeds, or reinvest in her/his own name - I have found a few accountants who are happier that way (others don't care). Otherwise, if you're mad-keen to avoid having to settle a CGT liability sooner rather than later and don't mind taking a punt on some high risk small stuff, you could consider an EIS investment at some point (doesn't have to be in the same year as making the gain).No advice here - just personal views and generic information. Happy to provide advice based on your circumstances, should you want it, though. (But I doubt you'd be on here, looking at your Catlin shares if you had any faith in the value of the snake oil financial advisers sell!)Good luck,
sinnet
21 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question one other option if you are married is to give some or all the CGL shares to your spouse so the gain becomes his/hers if he/she has not used all the CGT allowance.
sinnet
21 Jan 2015
Re: A CGT question You have to apportion the cost of holding between the XL shares and the cash received in the offer, based I think on their value when the offer goes unconditional. So although you can defer selling the XL shares and so possibly push that part of the gain into another tax year, the cahs element will be a realised capital gain.
Greyinvestor
21 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding Other way round, I think. We always follow the US down, regardless of our valuation. It's a weight of money thing.History never fully repeats itself, but usually the trigger is when short term interest rates rise, typically 6 months after the first rise. No sign of that quite yet.At some point there is going to be an almighty fall in the treasury market, and then the whole house will come down........
Guitarsolo
20 Jan 2015
A CGT question Afternoon all, Can someone who knows more about tax answer a question for me? I originally bought at an average of about 480p and so the ~700p offer price from XL represents about a 45% gain and would give me a CGT liability as my allowance is used up elsewhere. However, only 388p of the offer is being paid as cash and the rest as XL shares (which I know wouldn't attract CGT if it was an all-share offer). My question is; if the cash element (388p) is below my average buy-in cost, do I have a CGT liability. If so, how is it worked out?Thanks in advance for your any help. Guitarsolo
farmerdave
20 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding GInvestorI reduced my Catlin holding above 7 (about 40%) and am holding similar to you for rest.With the CAPE analysis the main market that is overvalued is the US one - do you think it follows to the UK market or not ?FD
Warren Buffoon
19 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding Thanks Grey for the stockmarket valuation page. I've been using the same information from the FT for a long time, but they've suddenly stopped publishing it (don't know why).Assuming this is updated fairly regularly, I shall be a user.Regards
Greyinvestor
19 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding I use the 'top yielding' charts all the time, and the 52 week lows. [link] also use this;[link] think that the macro view is vital. Unfortunately it also convinces me that the market is very overvalued........
Warthog4
19 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding Hi Greyinvestor,Re cash/ yield search.Me too.No doubt you have tried various sites-try these two unless you have already?Some of the EPS Vs DPS border on science fiction!!![link]
Rusty Jock
15 Jan 2015
Re: CGL holding I sold all my shares at 707p last week and will miss out on 20p of the total payment .But you will have to wait a while for the payment structure to dribble through starting with the dividend and special Box div in about 2-3 months , then the bulk payment for the shares likely to be even further out (maybe 4 months ? dont know ) , and then finally the XL shares which a lot of folk will sell .So I just decided to take all the cash at a 3% discount , and move on .There could be some buying opportunities for that cash given the extreme volatility in global markets.GLA
