schwee
12 Mar 2018
Re: Aviva prefs Ecclesiastical who also have irredeemable prefs issued an RNS this morning putting the knife into Aviva over two lengthy paras. Followed by a one sentence statement saying they would not be following suit.It would be funny if it were not so serious. And I suppose that is Ecclesiastical's point.
paul1945
10 Mar 2018
Aviva prefs Please also look on dicussion board for items under heading of the actual prefs Aviva & General Accident
paul1945
10 Mar 2018
Re: "Perpetual" shares Am I dreaming we are talking about AVIVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES one of the biggest insurance co in the world are they quoted on AIM? !!!!! NO in FTSE 100!! supposed upholders of savers, investors, &shareholders of all companies not just their own some comments are missing the point the clue isin the word irredeemable means never redeemable would they be offering to redeem @ 100 if price was 50p still shocked will have more to say later but we must contact all financial mags & all papers IC did tip aviva 8.375 & others some time back get iii & others brokers to protest & Mark Faber F.I. expert & our MPs
cavebear
10 Mar 2018
"Perpetual" shares According to a post on another website, the term "perpetual" as it related to the Cumulative Irredeemable Preference shares was deleted from the Aviva website a couple of days ago. Not clear if this was before or after the announcement, but someone could rue the day that they thought that that might be an appropriate action.
The Dutchman
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares To be fair to all investors Aviva should just buy the irredeemable preference shares in the market and then cancel them that way.I'm not 100% sure on the accounting rules for preference shares but for debt carrying a high interest burden companies now have to account for that debt at market value, So buying in debt at market value and cancelling it would give no profit or loss. Conversely cancelling the debt at Par would give rise to a profit, so surely Aviva aren't going to cancel the Prefs and then claim they made a profit on the deal, those profits of course being my losses.
silent but deadly
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares Hopefully the shareholders will stop the board cancelling the preference shares. All shareholders get a vote for this so pref holders will have a vested interest and it will make little difference to the ordinary shareholder.When John Lewis did something similar they paid 150% for the 7.5% pref shares and only 100% for the 5%. This may well have had something to do with the respective values at the time.
Proverbs 26 vs 5
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares Remember the maxim that they can do anything that you haven't gat the power to stop them.So who is going to stop them?
cavebear
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares There's a lot of correspondence and varying views on a website called The Lemon Fool, including items from a poster called GoSeigen who essentially argues that Prefs are an equity like investment, investors took the risk and lost. Rather misses the point about these being "Preferred" or "Irredeemeable". The other line of argument is that these shares are being cancelled, not redeemed - weasle words achieving the same result. On that basis, can the Ordinary Shares be cancelled for 25p?I find it extraordinary that given the confusion that has been caused, including the spillover into other preference shares, that Aviva has not sought to make any clarifying statement. They have created an extremely volatile market in which investors have little clarity or insight into the basis on which they may be trading.Re some of the earlier comments:The Articles of Association allow for redemption of "New Preference Shares" but not Existing Preference Shares" - back to the debate about redemption vs cancellation.This situation is not comparable to Lloyds ECNs - these had a provision to allow for redemption following a "regulatory event" which the Court agreed had happened allowing that provision to be enacted.Helical Bar had a clear provision to allow early redemption and an equally clear mechanism to determine the price of redemption - linked to a UK Gilt of similar duration plus a margin (0.50%).In the event of a (required) vote, it seems unclear from previous posts whether this would be just among Preference Shareholders or shareholders of all classes.Putting aside the legal aspects which undoubtedly now will be put through the wringer, surely common sense must prevail. The term irredeemable is an absolute - just as something cannot be almost unique, or a woman half pregnant - so something is irredeemable or not (and not subject to some spurious cancellation). What would the man on the Clapham omnibus think if told that something is irredeemable, only to have a large part of it effectively confiscated.If Aviva wish to rid themselves of this debt, they should pay the appropriate price - ie the prevailing market price prior to the announcement plus compensation for the loss of future dividend yield. Expect the lawyers are going to have a field day all for the sake of a relatively small part of Aviva's capital structure.
The Dutchman
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares As an Aviva investor I was idly reading this discussion, when I suddenly realised that I owned a General Accident so-called irredeemable preference share, so I've just taken a knock of 20% of that holding. Surely to have a class of traded share capital with "Iredeemable" in the title and then attempt to redeem at par claiming the title is irrelevant is close to a fraud on investors. On another forum someone has looked up the terms of these prefs and believes that they will have to be redeemed at the average market price pertaining in the 6 months prior to redemption ------ that same price which has just fallen 20% !!
silent but deadly
09 Mar 2018
Re: Preference Shares Have a look at the Fixed Income Investment website, all the answers and queries are there, clear as mud. Lloyds and Standard chartered not gone down but all other pref shares hav
winningstreak
09 Mar 2018
MARKET MANIPULATION Should Aviva be found out buying the Cum. Irr. Pref. Sharesat current collapsed market price, then the directors canbe accused of MARKET MANIPULATION, which is a criminaloffence.ws
IOMINVESTCOM
09 Mar 2018
Broker forecasts & stances closer to 6.00 09 Mar 18 Deutsche Bank Buy 512.20 600.00 - Reiterates09 Mar 18 Citigroup Buy 512.20 603.00 - Reiterates09 Mar 18 Citigroup Buy 512.20 - 603.00 Reiterates28 Feb 18 Barclays Capital Overweight 512.20 - - Reiterates26 Feb 18 JP Morgan Cazenove Overweight 512.20 - - Reiterates[link]
cavebear
09 Mar 2018
Re: Small investors hit by Aviva bond buybac... Two major differences from the Lloyd's situation - the Lloyds bonds contained a specific provision that they could be redeemed if a certain event took place - the Court, somewhat controversially, ruled that they were allowed to redeem the bonds under this provision. I am not aware that the Aviva iredeemable prefs have any such provision. Also, and rather fundamentally, the Lloyds bonds were never represented as being irredeemable.In an article in the Times today, they state that the Aviva argument is that they would not be redeeming them but cancelling them. Not sure I can tell the difference.
IOMINVESTCOM
09 Mar 2018
Small investors hit by Aviva bond buyback Aviva was accused yesterday of considering “very aggressive action” against thousands of retail investors after it said it may buy back their lucrative bonds without paying a premium.If the insurer goes ahead with the plan it will be the second big UK financial institution to take such action against the will of many investors. The first was Lloyds, which bought back more than £3 billion of bonds in 2016 after a battle with investors who took their case to the Supreme Court.[link]
IOMINVESTCOM
09 Mar 2018
Re: HL view Hargreaves Lansdown: Aviva needs to prove itself long-termInsurer Aviva (AV) reported mixed results and Hargreaves Lansdown believes that the newly slimmed-down group needs to prove it can deliver long-term growth.Aviva reported operating profits up 2% in 2017 to £3.1 billion driven by ‘exceptional gains’ in life insurance and fund management. The board also announced a final dividend of 19p per share, taking the full year payout to 27.4p, an 18% increase on last year.But analyst Nicholas Hyett said it was ‘not all plain sailing’ due to deteriorating underwriting performance and climbing expenses in the life business.‘[Chief executive] Mark Wilson’s move to simplify Aviva has done wonders,’ he said. ‘However, with the groundwork now complete the next job is to prove a slimmed down diversified insurer can deliver long-term growth as well as cash today.‘The group’s targeting over 5% earnings growth a year from 2018, if that’s deliverable there’s scope for the already sizeable 5.8% dividend yield to swell over the years to come.’[link]
