In the dark yet again
08 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS LKH,Me, got a couple of years left to go before I can pull anything but it is something I've been trying to get on top of. I did ask YouInvest about withdrawals and fees but haven't had a response yet (it wasn't a simple question and I did say there was no hurry)Anyway, as I understand it with the current rules:Withdrawals from the SIPP. If you want a 'regular' payment (I guess say monthly?) it's £100 p.a. plus VAT. If you want a 'one-off' withdrawal it's £75 plus VAT. Those withdrawal can be 25% tax free with income tax at your marginal rate payable on the other 75%. Can't seem to find a way to 'allocate' them my tax code (I will have no other source of 'earned income' so £11,000 at zero plus £3,666 as the 25% lump sum was the way I was thinking assuming the 2016-17 personal allowances) so it looks like they'll deduct the tax at 20% with me having to claim it back via my annual year end self assessment.Anything unused upon death is outside your estate so no death duty/IHT. If you die before 75 then, unless something pretty extreme, it should be shared out according to you expression of wish and, as long as it's within 2 years, they will receive it clean, no tax. If you died after 75 they still get it but they have to pay tax at their marginal rate. Can't find out what happens if they are non-resident UK for tax purposes or whether they can bounce it straight into a SIPP of their own without deduction - my logic thinks it's deemed as income so they should be able to pension it and get the tax back even if they have to pay it upfront. Obviously there is probably only the 20% tax credit on the contribution while the 'income' might get hammered at a higher rate.The old 55% HMRC grab of anything unused at death over 75 was eliminated when the drawdown freedom came in April 2015.[link] I'm no tax accountant and am still a couple of years away so a decent understanding rather than definitive is OK for me at the moment - no doubt stuff will change before I get there so there's little point in completely nailing it.Hope it helps.Regards,ITDYA....... and we were both right in thinking the RIT Cap 'bid' was very unlikely though I do like the fact that it's raised the profile and maybe put ATST into play.
cimbom
07 Jun 2016
Re: RIT Capital abandons Alliance Trust chas... I think both RCP and the AT run by dodgy Elliot advisors should be investigated for market manipulation. Even though I use ATS platform I stopped investing in AT when they stopped it being compulsory, they were hopeless 20 years ago, they remain hopeless now. the looks of things RCP appears to be hopeless too. No direction just manipulation.I will get rid of my holding in RCP in due course.
Ben Alligin
07 Jun 2016
RIT Capital abandons Alliance Trust chase RIT Capital (RCP ) has withdrawn from merger talks with Alliance Trust (ATST ) and no longer holds a stake in its troubled rival.In January last year the Rothschild family-backed global fund disclosed that it had a small stake of under 3% in Dundee-based Alliance. This came just before the outbreak of hostilities between Alliance and its largest shareholder, Elliott Associates, the US hedge fund, which led to sweeping changes of its board and corporate structure and the removal of its chief executive Katharine Garrett-Cox.It had been widely assumed that RIT still held the position following last week's announcement of its preliminary merger approach to Alliance.However, sources close to the company said RIT, which is chaired by Lord Jacob Rothschild (pictured), had sold the stake last summer. Although stock market rules require investment trusts to disclose holdings of under 3% in other investment trusts they do not oblige them to announce their disposal. The clarification of RIT's position came hours after it issued a stock exchange announcement saying it would not proceed with an offer for a £5 billion union for Alliance.‘Following careful analysis and constructive discussions with representatives of Alliance Trust, RIT has concluded that it would not be in the best interests of its shareholders to make an offer for Alliance Trust and accordingly announces that it does not intend to make an offer to acquire Alliance Trust,’ it said.Full story at:[link]
Ben Alligin
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS Sorry, the charge for trades is £5. There is a one-off set-up fee of £200, but fortunately I set mine up when this fee was only £20 or so.
Ben Alligin
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS I like iWeb for ISAs (not mentioned on the Boring Money site). There is no annual fee and just a charge of £10 for trades.
In the dark yet again
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS And YouInvest for an ISA? £9.95 a trade (down to £4.95 for frequent traders, whatever that might be), no other fees whatsoever unless (maybe?) you have OEIC/Unit trusts....... in which case you're probably getting hammered twice, once by the fund managers and again by your broker. Pure madness in my eyes when precious few of them can consistently beat the market after fees/expenses.I had my SIPP with ATS but moved it as they put up their fees - they said they were 'realigning their pricing structure to make it competitive with other service provided' i.e. jacked their prices and tried to fob us off with a very lame excuse. Mine was gone within a month, rumour had it along with about 20% of their other accounts. The platform was pretty average, nothing special. When I looked around the proposed fees were less than HL, significantly, but not competitive with some other providers.Then it is a £600k ISA and a £500k SIPP so anything %age based isn't going to work.Given they hold the shares in their nominee and get the stock borrowing/lending fees plus 'cover' for their CFD business there's no legitimate reason for charging any fees at all - they should be paying me to be honest.Interactive Investor? A non-starter - the Verizon CDIs along with anything similar being the reason. They wouldn't allow their members to hold them. That's LSE CDIs remember, not NY shares. Simple security traded on the London market and you can't have it? Sorry, that's a non-starter.The ISA is still with Selftrade, the new platform not a good as the old one but £12.50 a trade and no other fees (other than for funds but that's never going to happen for me). I'm not a frequent trader so it's OK...... for now at least until they too, no doubt, try to 'realign their pricing structure'.Regards,ITDYA, currently a big fan of YouInvest but can't have all my eggs in the one basket.
cimbom
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS On 100,000 ISA with 20 trades per annum, ATS charge £108 + 250 = £358 per annum, HL charge £450. HL makes profits ATS does not!!! ATS has no excuse for not making profit. Creative accounting. More to the point Interactive Investor: £20 quarterly fee for an ISA which includes 2 x free trades per quarter (8 trades per annum) beyond which £10 per trade (both funds and shares). Much cheaper than ATS. Clearly Interactive Investor is also profitable and a much better platform.[link]
Wynford2
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS "HL is also much lower cost than ATS if you only use funds rather than shares."Example :- On £100,000 ISA full of funds ATS charge a flat fee of £7.50/month. HL charge 0.45% i.e. £37.50 per month.
cimbom
02 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS The fact that ATS may not be making a profit on paper can only be due to in house accounting practices, I would have no doubt whatsoever that ATS does make healthy operational profit for Alliance Trust. We all know Alliance Trust does not manage any of its operations cost effectively, this applies to investment as well as ATS arms, more to the point money wasted on executives.iii.co.uk is an example of how cost efficient service may be arranged at a fraction of the charges of ATS. HL is also much lower cost than ATS if you only use funds rather than shares.
Ben Alligin
01 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS Alliance Trust has always had a savings arm, the primary purpose of which was originally to help create demand for the shares by providing low-cost savings schemes such as PEPs and ISAs. It certainly worked in my case, as I am both a customer of Alliance Trust Savings and an Alliance Trust shareholder.I agree that ATS may not be making a profit for Alliance Trust, but I would be sorry to see it go. I imagine anyone else taking it over would increase the charges. At the moment, the charges are fixed per year, while for the likes of Hargreaves Lansdown, they are usually a percentage of the value of your investments, so it can become very expensive as your investments grow. This explains why HL is profitable. Apart from the reasonable charges, I have been quite happy with the service I receive from ATS.
LK Hyman
01 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS Kapulski,I agree. Lex was far more coy about saying what a rotten idea this is from RIT's perspective than I would have been. I s'pose they are careful about criticising Lord Jake though, come to think of it, they didn't hesitate to say what a total horlicks the boy Nat Rothschild made over Genel and Bumi. Truly he has the reverse Midas touch.LKH on the flybridge
Kapulski
01 Jun 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS LKH -I agree that this deal just ain't going to happen. Both trusts are perfectly viable as they are, and the only rationale would be in order to spread a fixed cost base across a bigger portfolio, though that would of course apply equally to any merger with any other trust, not just RIT.I don't agree, though, that Elliott have "cleaned the Augean stables". There's still a steaming pile of poo in the corner that needs urgent attention. It's called Alliance Savings. This ill-fated and incompetently implemented venture has so far cost shareholders £93 million and is currently valued at £54 million. way of comparison, Hargreaves Lansdown was founded around the same time, with similar aims, and is currently valued at £6.38 billion. Or, as the FT pointed out today, if Alliance had simply drip-fed that £93 million into an index tracker instead, we'd be sitting on a gain of about £200 million rather than a loss of around £50 million.Alliance Savings has been a failure. It should be sold.
Global IT man
01 Jun 2016
Its not just RIT... [link] bidding war would be good!
LK Hyman
31 May 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS Bone,"if the NAV of the assets is 560p why does the Board not flog the underlying shares and hold cash ?"Because it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. The scoundrels would be doing themselves out of a job. Can you imagine what the fragrant KGC would have said if you'd suggested that to her? Geddahdaheeah!Jake Rothschild has come in far too late. Elliott have cleaned the Augean stables created by KGC, and the discount is narrowing. There's very little to go for.This deal is never gonnae happen, my humble.LKH on the flybridge
In the dark yet again
31 May 2016
Re: Rothschild makes move to acquire ATS Interesting.I assume any bid, should it arrive will, be mainly paper. Me, not sure I want to hold RCP - I know it has a 'good' reputation but it's not obviously clear to me why. ATST has out performed RCP over the past 5 years (and by a fair old margin), over ten years, there's not much in it which does beg the question why ATST trades (and has done consistently) at a 10% discount yet RCP trades at a premium. Better marketed? Higher profile? The ATST discount never bothered me as I was always a net investor; just meant I got more shares for the same money but there's no way I'm going to hold a generalist Investment Trust that trades at a premium - I'll sell it and buy the underlying shares myself. All mine is in the SIPP so no CGT issues.As I say, the terms, should it happen, will be interesting. If they are going to give me NAV or fairly close fine but if they are going to pay for it with their overpriced paper, well that will be dumped in the market within minutes. All of it, and there will be quite a lot!Gut feel is it won't happen though Elliott will probably be interested in a fast buck if there's one available. I do hope so!Regards,ITDYA watching this space.
