Zhukov1
23 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote Oh, and for what it's worth, I think it's a foregone conclusion AIF will continue. It's the big players vote that counts, not us small private investors.
PIE-EATER
23 Sep 2016
Re: Sold Agree SDV is a good choice I have a smaller holding in this.....slightly better divi if memory serves?The 2 Davids also seem to have been around forever. This also seems to have become slightly becalmed over the last year or so, but as with all specialist / smaller companies stuff you need to trust the managers longer term. Like AIF I will give them time and firmly believe that will benefit me.I also believe there is a correction coming so have been taking profits / top slicing, although not with either AIF or SDV yet.....the closer we get to the real Bexit negotiations the more cash I intend to hold so may have a couple of months to get my balance as I want it....hopefully. GLAPE
PIE-EATER
23 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote 1 No I don't work for them. I am not blindly obsessed with them (you actually seem blindly obsessed - why would you be on this board and taking such an interest if you sold out 12 months ago and the trust is so poor?) For me AIF had done a specific job very well over the longer term, and in fact continues to do so. I am not blind to the issues with this fund but I am also well aware that I am not good enough, nor have enough time, time try and accurately time ins and outs with this fund. 2.Acorn is strictly speaking not a pure smaller companies fund anyway.....compare it to the index it is measured against....an appropriate tracker would be slightly less than that index. Yes John McLure was a big loss....his personality, his character and his skills, but also because he was a nice and decent man. But lets be clear, Fraser is no mug.3. II are notorious for getting their fundamentals and indicated prices wrong - thats why I jacked them in4. Yes The schrods fund is reasonable - if memory serves it was one of the Cazenove ones taken over by Schroder (could be wrong on that one as they had a multitude of smaller company riches between the two companies and managed to make a right botch of the integration) and the performance slumped. Admittedly from II, but cumulative 5yrs AIF +171% Schrod UK dynamic +114%. In the UT sector I prefer Marlb Sp Sits but do wonder when Giles Hargraeve is going to pack in..........seems to have been around longer than Methuselah.5. I note you did't acknowledge you were wrong about the continuation vote...PEOff now to get daughter off to 1st year at Uni this weekend and birthday celebrations.
Zhukov1
23 Sep 2016
Re: Sold The two income trusts I've held over the past few years are this and SDV. Both based on a smaller company portfolio, both yielding around 4%. SDV has a couple of advantages IMO. One, far better protection on the downside. Less volatility and no massive sudden drops in falling markets. I can also ALWAYS get a price, whether I want to buy and sell. Use the iii charting tool to compare the two trusts and you'll see what I mean. I've made about 20% capital growth, plus dividends, from Acorn in the time I've held. At the moment, I'm not looking to quickly re-invest as I think there's a market correction coming before the year's out. However, I will buy into a falling market when I think it's sensibly valued, and SDV may well be the destination for the Acorn cash. Good luck to all of you who continue to hold.
Uncle Doug
23 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote PIEYou need to get your facts right. A quick check on Google Finance reveals these facts:Small comps tracker 1 year up 9.25%, AIF dn 4%Small comps tracker 3years up 22%, AIF up 13%It's a no brainer. SELL. As for the spread you say iii has it wrong, but all other ITs I monitor and invest in iii have far smaller spreads, so why would they have it wrong only for AIF?You seem blindly obsessed with AIF. Do you work for them? Don't get me wrong Acorn had their day when McClure was managing them but since his death AIF have failed. I suggest you cut your losses, sell AIF and buy some more Fundsmith which have given a decent return over last few years. If you want UK smaller comps look at Schroder UK Dynamic Companies (UT) - I think it has very good prospects and is less volatile and done well over last couple of years
cimbom
22 Sep 2016
Good trust good yield. [link] am holding, I do not think shareholders would vote for discontinuation and discount will narrow with improving performance of the past three months.
PIE-EATER
22 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote Doug - you were WRONG....You really do need to try and get some facts correct. It has been in the articles of association since 1999 that a continuation vote MUST take place every five year....it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with performance. There is NO discretion. A tracker would have done worse over the last year.II may show a wide spread but when you actually deal the spread is nothing like that (except times like June 24th)....I can vouch having done it both in terms of topping up and bed n isa. That is just IIPE
PIE-EATER
22 Sep 2016
Re: Sold And now try to find one in the same sector so asset allocation stays similar ...after all it is that allocation which provides 90% of returns.I could just as easily quote 2 of my holdings...BGS up 51% in the last year....or FPEO which is up 34.7%.....while it could be argued that both are smaller companies, the geography / sector is totally different. UEM up 31% in 3 yrs and 64% Take the currency effect out from the unexpected Brexit result in June and remove 10% straight away.PEI also hold Fundsmith to provide a different dimension
Uncle Doug
22 Sep 2016
Re: Sold PIE,That's easy. Here's just one:UEM.L - Utilico Up 25% since this time last year - where I put most of my sold AIF money from 2015 which would have stayed still if I'd kept it in AIF. Also Fundsmith has done me proud.
Uncle Doug
22 Sep 2016
Re: Sold ZhukovTotally agree with all you said. Good to see someone knows what they're talking about on this BB.The 18% over 3 years is accurate due to recent summer spike, but 2 months ago the SP was at 318 so nowhere near 18%. It's spike 14% in just 2 months. Always been a volatile one to hold and difficult to sell IMHO.Well done on bailing out now - it's always impossible to call the top but I think you timed it well. Where you gonna put the cash or are you staying out for a while?
PIE-EATER
22 Sep 2016
Re: Sold Could you point me in he direction of some possible better alternatives?Thanks in advancePE
Uncle Doug
22 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote Well PIE Eater and trivaskus seems I was right - the poor performance has caused a discontinuation vote to come. I'm not surprised. Pretty awful few years since McClure passed away. Way down on what a Small companies tracker would have done. Also bid offer spread is 362/372 ie 10p then factor in dealing charges - makes it difficult for anyone who wants to sell. Luckily I sold my biggest lump in May 2015 at 361p - see past posts - and invested the proceeds in much better prospects.I'm pretty sure these will be discontinued and if I had any shares still I'd be selling at current prices before the vote uncertainty. The recent rises are due to removing the discount to NAV and these profits should be banked. Get selling before the drop.
Zhukov1
22 Sep 2016
Sold Finally sold out of Acorn this week after several years. Have been very disillusioned with the performance of it for a while (If you're happy with 18% over 3 years, fair enough). I think questions need to be asked at the AGM concerning the market makers the trust uses. Often a spread of at least 4% and I have found it impossible to sell in a falling market. Add to that the price plummeting on small volume sells and hardly rising on large volume buys and I think questions need to be asked. This has been poor since the death of John McClure and I think there are better options now. Good luck if you hold.
PIE-EATER
22 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote Thanks Cimbom,......understand your position now.Can't say necessarily agree with it, but understand and respect it. Differences of opinion are what make a market.PE
cimbom
22 Sep 2016
Re: Discontinuation vote If the discount of a trust is 10% irrespective of "future potential benefit" I would be in favour of winding it up and taking the proceeds exactly as I am in favour of trusts trading at premiums issuing more shares until share price is at par with NAV.
